Comments on: Why and how to use Jetty in mission-critical production http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/ Johannes Brodwall's Musings on Software Architecture and Programming Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:25:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Markus http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/comment-page-1/#comment-127914 Markus Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:13:00 +0000 http://johannesbrodwall.com/?p=519#comment-127914 100MB is too much just for Jetty. Also as I know JVM can share memory between several processes. See it here http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-3659/6n5s6m57s?l=en&a=view "If multiple applications or modules refer to the same libraries, classes in those libraries are automatically shared. This can reduce the memory footprint and allow sharing of static information." Anyway, I would better create a simple test case that shows how much memory overhead this solution has. 100MB is too much just for Jetty. Also as I know JVM can share memory between several processes. See it here http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-3659/6n5s6m57s?l=en&a=view
“If multiple applications or modules refer to the same libraries, classes in those libraries are automatically shared. This can reduce the memory footprint and allow sharing of static information.”

Anyway, I would better create a simple test case that shows how much memory overhead this solution has.

]]> By: Markus http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/comment-page-1/#comment-127915 Markus Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:05:00 +0000 http://johannesbrodwall.com/?p=519#comment-127915 There are many "service wrapper" libraries. Some of them http://commons.apache.org/daemon/ http://wrapper.tanukisoftware.com/doc/english/download.jsp http://yajsw.sourceforge.net/ http://forge.ow2.org/projects/javaservice I would recommend to start trying from Apache Commons Daemon. It used for Apache Tomcat for example. There are many “service wrapper” libraries. Some of them

http://commons.apache.org/daemon/
http://wrapper.tanukisoftware.com/doc/english/download.jsp
http://yajsw.sourceforge.net/
http://forge.ow2.org/projects/javaservice

I would recommend to start trying from Apache Commons Daemon. It used for Apache Tomcat for example.

]]> By: Johannes Brodwall http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/comment-page-1/#comment-127913 Johannes Brodwall Fri, 20 Aug 2010 10:18:00 +0000 http://johannesbrodwall.com/?p=519#comment-127913 On Windows, I've only ever used the command line. Maybe someone else have experience using Java Service Wrapper, or a similar approach? On Windows, I’ve only ever used the command line. Maybe someone else have experience using Java Service Wrapper, or a similar approach?

]]> By: Ole C. Langfjæran http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/comment-page-1/#comment-127909 Ole C. Langfjæran Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:52:00 +0000 http://johannesbrodwall.com/?p=519#comment-127909 100MB sounds about right from what I could gather. Running your example one-jar took about 80MB, so Jetty itself probably demands even less. 10-15 apps on one server should be an overcoming task for any server so to speak. A little off that topic: Do any of you have experience using this scheme on a Windows Server? And doing so, should one run the one-jar as a service or plain and simple inside a command-prompt? I guess service is the correct answer utilizing the shutdownhook on Jetty. But how to wrap a "java -jar" into a windows process is a field unexplored by me. 100MB sounds about right from what I could gather. Running your example one-jar took about 80MB, so Jetty itself probably demands even less. 10-15 apps on one server should be an overcoming task for any server so to speak.

A little off that topic: Do any of you have experience using this scheme on a Windows Server? And doing so, should one run the one-jar as a service or plain and simple inside a command-prompt?

I guess service is the correct answer utilizing the shutdownhook on Jetty. But how to wrap a “java -jar” into a windows process is a field unexplored by me.

]]> By: Johannes Brodwall http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/comment-page-1/#comment-127898 Johannes Brodwall Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:08:00 +0000 http://johannesbrodwall.com/?p=519#comment-127898 I have the same experience as Markus. To be on the safe side, I would calculate 100MB overhead per extra app server (relative to having a single one). If you have 10-15 apps, this shouldn't be a problem. If you have 100, you may feel differently. I have the same experience as Markus. To be on the safe side, I would calculate 100MB overhead per extra app server (relative to having a single one). If you have 10-15 apps, this shouldn’t be a problem. If you have 100, you may feel differently.

]]> By: Markus http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/comment-page-1/#comment-127892 Markus Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:23:00 +0000 http://johannesbrodwall.com/?p=519#comment-127892 I don't think that the appserver (Jetty) takes a lot of memory. I did not measure it but I do not expect that it takes more than several MB. (If you have some time you might want to measure and publish the data) The most RAM takes the application data itself. I don’t think that the appserver (Jetty) takes a lot of memory. I did not measure it but I do not expect that it takes more than several MB. (If you have some time you might want to measure and publish the data)

The most RAM takes the application data itself.

]]> By: Ole C. Langfjæran http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/comment-page-1/#comment-127890 Ole C. Langfjæran Tue, 17 Aug 2010 11:22:00 +0000 http://johannesbrodwall.com/?p=519#comment-127890 Excellent and very inspiring post! I've taken your example in to use and already love the concept of being able to ship the applicationserver with my application. Within a few months it will by great certainty be shipped into production and not only test-environment. What I wonder a little about is this scheme demands one applicationserver per application? Considering that you have many applications, thus many applicationservers, will this leave a huge memory footprint against using a single applicationserver with many applications? Excellent and very inspiring post! I’ve taken your example in to use and already love the concept of being able to ship the applicationserver with my application. Within a few months it will by great certainty be shipped into production and not only test-environment.

What I wonder a little about is this scheme demands one applicationserver per application? Considering that you have many applications, thus many applicationservers, will this leave a huge memory footprint against using a single applicationserver with many applications?

]]> By: Paul c http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/comment-page-1/#comment-127773 Paul c Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:51:21 +0000 http://johannesbrodwall.com/?p=519#comment-127773 I'm beginning to wonder is the whole idea of a "container" is really a good idea. Not just with respect to web servers but more generally. Its one of the reasons I like Camel - I can have an application with ESB functionality without needing a container. In fact I'm working on a system using embedded Camel and Jetty all in the one app.<br><br>Even if you use a gazillion libraries including hefty ones like spring hibernate camel etc in terms of actual megabytes of space it doesn't really amount to much on a modern system so why not keep each application stand-alone and avoid all those container related dependency, unit testing, classloading etc etc problems.<br><br>IMO we've been brainwashed over the years to equate production environments with containers in the java world. I'm beginning to wonder is the whole idea of a “container” is really a good idea. Not just with respect to web servers but more generally. Its one of the reasons I like Camel – I can have an application with ESB functionality without needing a container. In fact I'm working on a system using embedded Camel and Jetty all in the one app.

Even if you use a gazillion libraries including hefty ones like spring hibernate camel etc in terms of actual megabytes of space it doesn't really amount to much on a modern system so why not keep each application stand-alone and avoid all those container related dependency, unit testing, classloading etc etc problems.

IMO we've been brainwashed over the years to equate production environments with containers in the java world.

]]> By: Johannes Brodwall http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/comment-page-1/#comment-127719 Johannes Brodwall Thu, 08 Apr 2010 16:32:27 +0000 http://johannesbrodwall.com/?p=519#comment-127719 Hi, Terjei<br><br>winstone-maven-plugin looks very nice. What I like about my approach is the fact that I regain control of the main-method. Perhaps a sign that I am a control freak. And I suspect you can do the same with winstone if you want to.<br><br>Good tip. Thanks. Hi, Terjei

winstone-maven-plugin looks very nice. What I like about my approach is the fact that I regain control of the main-method. Perhaps a sign that I am a control freak. And I suspect you can do the same with winstone if you want to.

Good tip. Thanks.

]]> By: tarjeihuse http://johannesbrodwall.com/2010/03/08/why-and-how-to-use-jetty-in-mission-critical-production/comment-page-1/#comment-127717 tarjeihuse Thu, 08 Apr 2010 15:30:25 +0000 http://johannesbrodwall.com/?p=519#comment-127717 One jar, that is the way to do it. Here are some implementation pointers.<br><br>Installing and configuring applicationservers is quite a drag and often hard to automate with tools like puppet or cfengine.<br><br>I've switched to doing this for all my different services with good results. With maven you can do this using the winstone-maven plugin very easily. <br><br>Another option is using the jetty-runner that was created for Jetty 7. The camel-web-standalone component in the Apache Camel project contains an example for creating a combined jar for jetty-runner and all dependencies.<br><br>Hope this helps someone. One jar, that is the way to do it. Here are some implementation pointers.

Installing and configuring applicationservers is quite a drag and often hard to automate with tools like puppet or cfengine.

I've switched to doing this for all my different services with good results. With maven you can do this using the winstone-maven plugin very easily.

Another option is using the jetty-runner that was created for Jetty 7. The camel-web-standalone component in the Apache Camel project contains an example for creating a combined jar for jetty-runner and all dependencies.

Hope this helps someone.

]]>